November 17th in Seal Beach History

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On this date in 1963, the Long Beach Independent ran a story about the new craze, folk music. In two mid-sized columns, the unnamed reporter covered the growing popularity of folk music on college campuses, Hootenanny, the ABC network’s musical variety show that featured many folk acts, and the perception of folk music as do-it-yourself music. The article quickly covers important figures in traditional folk music such as Leadbelly, John and Alan Lomax, Woody Guthrie, and The Weavers. The story even touches briefly on folk music’s subversive reputation.

While all that is interesting as a snapshot of folk music’s position in the mainstream culture in late 1963, it doesn’t really have anything to do with Seal Beach history except that the story was accompanied by this photo:

The caption for the photo confirms something about Seal Beach’s musical history that I’ve heard before so I’m going to quote it fully:

JOAN BAEZ, wears the long hair and high-necked female folk singer’s trademark costume. Miss Baez, not the example folk singer purists would point to as authentic, has built up a considerable following since strumming and singing in a Seal Beach coffee house some two and one-half years ago.

The coffee house in question is almost certainly the Rouge et Noir. If we count back that two and one-half years, Baez played on Main Street Seal Beach in May of 1961, give or take a few months.

In September 1963, Vanguard Records released her second LP album, imaginatively titled, “Joan Baez, Volume 2.” Here’s “Old Blue,” a song from that album. Perhaps Baez tested it on a Seal Beach audience in the Rouge et Noir some night over fifty years ago.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q4XAg1ZUbo]

On a unrelated note, I’ve occasionally griped here about how awful microfilm was as a medium for archiving newspapers and magazines. Please note the truly lousy quality of microfilmed photo above the quoted caption and then compare it to the actual image it was taken from:

I hate microfilm.

ADDENDUM: One time Seal Beach resident has shared this on Facebook on November 12th, 2019 in the “You know you grew up in Seal Beach, CA when…” group:

“Saw young Baez there. She sang Silver Dagger – Knocked me out.”

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xlmb8gG7HU]

– Michael Dobkins

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Comments

13 responses to “November 17th in Seal Beach History”

November 17, 2017

Ron Holmstrom

I saw her there, as our dad was Jerry Nikas’ friend and he made sure I got to see Baez and many other folk singers of the time. The Rouge was a great venue. The Nikas family also owned The Golden Bear and The Prison of Socrates.

Reply
1. November 17, 2017
  
  Michael Dobkins
  
  There’s a DVD of the Nikas backed film, 1965 Dirty Feet, that stars Tim Morgan and features The Prison of Socrates prominently, but there seems to be very little left to document this era. I’ve heard that all the memorabilia and records that the Nikas brothers had of their coffee houses days was destroyed in a basement flood. There is a hyper-rare Rouge et Noir LP album out there that I saw once on eBay about 15 years ago, a few photos and articles online, and some personal memories like yours, but that’s it.
  
  Thanks for sharing, Ron.
  
  Take Care,
  mpd
  
  Reply
June 5, 2020

Tim

I read your article with interest. It brought back fond memories of nights spent listening with my girlfriend (later wife) and friends to folk music in Seal Beach in the early-mid 1960s. In addition to Joan Baez, singers at the tiny venue over the years included Glenn Yarbrough, John Denver, and the hilarious Smothers Brothers, among others. However, the coffee house wasn’t the “Rouge et Noir;” it was the “Golden Bear.” This was NOT the famous Golden Bear Nightclub in HUNTINGTON BEACH, but a tiny coffee house on the NW corner of Main Street and Central in Seal Beach.

Reply
1. June 13, 2020
  
  Michael Dobkins
  
  Tim,
  
  Thanks for adding names to the growing list of performers who appeared on Main Street. I know that Steve Martin performed there in his early comedy days, and I’ve read about Linda Rodstadt hanging out in Seal Beach during her Stone Poney days (no confirmation that she performed on Main Street, though.)
  
  I hate to differ with you, but the coffee house at the location you describe (143 Main Street) was the Rouge et Noir according to newspaper ads in 1962, and newspapers start mentioning events at the Rouge et Noir without an address as far back as 1960.
  
  Perhaps the discrepancy comes from the fact that the Rouge et Noir in Seal Beach, The Golden Bear in Huntington Beach, and The Prison of Socrates in Balboa were owned by the same people. The three venues often shared acts, but I’ve never heard any other Seal Beachers from this era remember a Golden Bear on Main Street.
  
  The Rouge et Noir was renamed as The Cosmos in 1966 and kept that name until it closed a couple years later.
  
  Reply
September 9, 2020

Ginny Rolston Scott

Thank you so much! I knew Rouge et Noir wasn’t the name of the club where I spent so many happy hours listening to music. Yes, it was the Cosmos. Hoyt Axton played there with some frequency, and would come over to our house afterwards to drink (the Cosmos was a coffee house, with no liquor license). A wonderful raconteur as well as song writer and performer, he’d continue to perform for hours before driving back to LA in one of his collection of classic cars.

Reply
1. September 10, 2020
  
  Michael Dobkins
  
  My pleasure, Ginny. One of the rewards of this project is sparking other people’s fond memories of Seal Beach times past.
  
  Reply
July 26, 2021

michael g Estep

Michael, this is a question that has come up among many of my fellow seal beach residents. My name is Mike and I attended Zoeter school in the 4th grade to 7th before going to McGaugh, Intermediate. Graduated from Huntimgton beach High School in 1970. As you recall , Benny Rapps
Chevron was on the corner of main and pch. To the left of his station( on pch)was a Diner/ burger joint with pin ball machines. It was a popular hang out for many of us. This dinner may now be a subway. circa 1965 1968 not sure exactly. what was the name? The 101 Ranch House looks like it, but the address does not match.

Reply
1. July 27, 2021
  
  Michael Dobkins
  
  I know the place. Not personally, this was a little before my time, but I’ve heard people talk about it. It definitely wasn’t the 101 Ranch House, not only because the address was wrong, but also because it was a little more upscale than a burger joint/teen hangout.
  
  The address is now a Subway, but it’s also been a Penguin Yoghurt franchise, and before that, going back as far as the early 70s, a Taco Bell. I’ll ask around to see if anyone remembers the name or anything about the place. I’ve never found any mention of it in my digging through newspaper archives.
  
  Reply
January 29, 2022

Mike Collins

Mike and Mike, the diner was simply called The Snack Bar. It had the best pinball games .We used to play after baseball practice in the 60’s. I remember you, Mike Estep, you worked down the street at Carbonell Surfboards. Later, Mike Collins.

Reply
February 6, 2022

John

Rouge et Noir number 1, 1956-1958- South Frisco Jazz Band packed them in 2-3 nights per week. One time it was so packed inside, people were gathering outside in the street to get in, the police were called, they cooperated and closed the street off so everyone could dance outside. Fun times……..

Reply
January 19, 2024

Anthony (Tim) Mansolino

Do you know what year the Taco Bell was built in Seal Beach? I’ve searched and I can’t find it anywhere.

Reply
1. May 6, 2024
  
  Michael Dobkins
  
  Nope. It was there as early as 1969, but I don’t have any documentation earlier than that. Your best bet would be to check with SB city hall to see if they have records or contact the Taco Bell corporate offices to see if they have anything.
  
  Reply
August 16, 2024

Carol J.Genevieve Gerrior-Patton

The Rouge Et Noir and the Prison of Socrates is where I cut my teeth in the music industry. That’s where the young “Association members, Van Dyke Parks, broke theirs too at places like that, also at the Green Onion in San Francisco. We all were so green yet encouraged each other to stay with it. We encouraged so many more to keep writing and singing, because that’s why we existed. from Disneyland to Knotts berry Farm, to Cliffy Stones Hometown Jambury, Hometown Party, then the strip in Hollywood with Louie Armstong, Peggy Lee, Ella Fitzgerald, Jhonny Mercer, Richey Valance, Ricky Nelson and all the Jazz clubs and new rock clubs coming up. Lido Island had some cool places where Bobby Troup used to sing and he was a wonderful mentor. thats what we all did back then. It was a musical, magical time for everyone. Carol Genevieve Gerrior.

Reply